Sen. Scott Brown (R-MA) made the case in Lowell, MA on Friday that letting the Bush tax cuts for the wealthy expire would create a burden for well-off teachers, firefighters, and police officers.
From the Lowell Sun, which held an editorial board meeting with the Senator:
Brown also took on President Barack Obama for proposing tax hikes on families who earn more than $250,000 per year, saying that would hurt “teachers, firefighters, policemen, folks who work two jobs.”Asked which public servants earn that much money, Brown said it is common for police officers to earn well over $100,000 annually when overtime is factored into their pay.
“You throw in a teacher who’s working, plus a summer job, it adds up pretty quickly,” he said. “There’s quite a few of them.”
On the technical merits, it’s possible there are at least some Massachusetts families who fit Brown’s description — a couple hundred turnpike cops were found to be making $100k+ salaries in 2009 thanks to prodigious overtime numbers, for example, and in theory some of them have a spouse in a similar position. A few high-ranking Boston cops were found to have used overtime to bring in incomes of over $200,000 in 2010.
But even if they and their spouses combine to cross the $250,000 threshold, only their income beyond that level is taxed at the higher marginal rate, meaning compared to the conventionally wealthy they’re likely only paying a sliver of their overall income at the maximum tax level.
It doesn’t sound like there’s an epidemic of high-income public servants based on the available data for the area. According to Salary.com, which tracks average pay across various professions, 90% of Boston police patrol officers made a base salary below $75,307 last year and 90% of Lowell patrol officers made a base salary below $70,857. 90% of firefighters in Boston make under $68,793, and below $64,729 in Lowell. The average teacher in Lowell makes about $80,841 a year, according to the Massachusetts Department of Education, higher than the statewide average of $68,781.
National stats don’t show a glut of high-income public servants, either. According to a 2010 Williams College study of the richest 1%, just 0.8% of them held jobs in the “Government, teachers, social services” category. Those numbers were based on 2005 tax returns, but it’s unlikely their share has gotten much higher — states have slashed jobs and benefits for teachers and police officers around the country since the 2008 financial collapse, especially as stimulus dollars have run out. According to the last jobs report, government employment is down by 280,000 positions over the last year.
TPM reached out to a spokesman for Scott Brown to clarify if they have an estimate of the number of affected households.
Correction: An earlier version inaccurately indicated Brown’s quotes were made to patrons at a Lowell restaurant. They came out of an editorial board meeting with the Lowell Sun. TPM regrets the error.
Benjy Sarlin
Benjy Sarlin is a reporter for Talking Points Memo and co-writes the campaign blog, TPM2012. He previously reported for The Daily Beast/Newsweek as their Washington Correspondent and covered local politics for the New York Sun.
I just can not be upset for anyone making over 250K and bitching about a few more dollars percentage wise going to taxes. My wife and I make less then half of that combined and pay twice high a percentage as romney does.
Why isn't anyone worried about the well to do construction crowd? We've sure got it made & I know that because the well to do police, firemen & teachers all live in my neighborhood. We just sit around in our poolside cabanas every night & gloat & wonder how all of the poor people are doing. Yeah, right.
Truth be known, I'm sure it takes 3 to 4 of us & our incomes to hit the $250,000 threshhold.
But, if anyone of us were lucky enough to make a quarter of a million dollars a year, paying our fair share in taxes would be the least of our worries. Getting to that tax bracket would actually be a huge relief.
leftflank Hell, I'm a floorlayer and it would take a few more than 3or 4 to get over that threshold!
So, now all of a sudden conservatives give a crap about teachers? HA! What a load of BS. For the past few years they've done nothing but rail about the evil teachers that are robbing us with their high salaries. Now those poor teachers who (between their teaching job, their summer job and their spouses job) make over $250K will get a higher tax rate on a tiny fraction of their income. We can't make them suffer any more.
The vast majority of comments already made have suggested that Scott Brown is either deliberately lying to provoke the unemployed to resent public service employees like teachers - or he has NO CLUE what his constituents actually earn in his state. I agree that, in either case, he isn't suitable for his office.
His handlers are smart enough to know that police, firefighters and teachers are the new boogie men to the wingers. After all, cops, teachers and firefighters are only in it fo the money. He also glosses over the fact that these folks (the few that there are) are making this kind of money by working oodles of overtime or holding down two or more jobs. He doesn't count all those mking LESS that 250,000 who are working overtime and holding down two or more jobs.
"Brown also took on President Barack Obama for proposing tax hikes on families who earn more than $250,000 per year, saying that would hurt ..."
somebody owes me 235,000 dollars/year, or I've been "hurt", if I can be expected to live on 15,000 a year then those making $250,000 aren't hurtin' too much.
"Quite a few of them"? Nah, dude. No summer job boosts your salary to 6 figures unless you sell pot. And even then you'd have to sell a lot.
malibu_alex On the other hand, a crooked cop could do this. Bur report it?
Sad, pathetic, out of touch, out in left field, out right lie, liar liar pants on fire, what the heck is he talking about, how stupid does he think voters are, desperate much, is this guy an idiot, weird and bizzare, does he know basic math, what teachers is he talking about. Feel free to add your own.
Scott Brown is living on some planet not in this galaxy! The Planet of IDIOTS!
It's very unRepublican to be worrying about teachers, firefighters and policemen, but it doesn't surprise me that Scotty is ignorant of what they earn. As a Massachusetts voter I've been practicing waving byebye to Scotty as Elizabeth Warren rolls into town.
The pressure is getting to Sen. Brown so we can expect more of this type of idiotic statements.
The teachers I know who work a summer job do so to make ends meet.
Cheryl44 Agree with your post. And most school districts here in California have cut back summer school so far, they only have it for Special Needs students.
Isn't the real question, what about the dipshit junior senator named Brown?
If you read between the lines Scott Brown is basically just saying, get this brilliant woman off of my ass, please!
That makes me think of all the corporate CEOs who make under $75K/yr.
I hope he keeps on talking about those rich policemen, firemen and teachers. He could probably throw in nurses and Chefs too. Keep on flapping dem lips. And EW keeps on talking about how that 1%er who owns the factory success is propped up by the "public educations system (teachers), a highway system paid for by taxpayers like those policemen who also insure that the 1%ers goods don't get hijacked; and in case of fire he has a professional team of fire fighters who will come to his aid and keep the place from burning to the ground. That would be the same public service employee we call firemen....
Let him keep talking. Cause I do believe he will talk himself out of a job come November.
Scott Brown: What About All The Rich Schoolteachers?
Oh how funny, ... I think you'll have a much harder time to find a RICH public worker, ... than finding a LIVE T-Rex walking down your street!
This is a great example of the logical fallacy: the straw man.
Person A has position X.
Person B presents position Y (which is a distorted version of X).
Person B attacks position Y.
Therefore X is false/incorrect/flawed.
Or in this case...
Letting the tax cuts expire would be good for public servants like teachers, police, etc.
Some teachers/police will pay higher taxes if we let the tax cuts expire.
Making teachers/police pay higher taxes is bad.
Therefore letting the tax cuts expire is bad.
I could also see it being a red herring, and/or a biased sample.
(Person A/B from http://www.nizkor.org/features/fallacies/)
KNOW YOUR FALLACIES! CAUSE KNOWING IS HALF THE BATTLE...
I am a CPS social worker (State employee). I make a a base salary of $31, 000. IF I ever make even $100, 000 myself, I would be happy to pay more in taxes. With family, if I made over $250, 000, I'd be thrilled to pay more taxes. It would be fair. But then again, I am a public employee who believes in my SERVICE to the public. I am also a social worker who believes in society working together for the common good of the people.
Out. Of. Touch. Or lying.
dustbunny44 Or, out of touch AND lying.
What planet is this guy beaming in from? My sister and brother in law are both college professors and their combined income doesn't come near a quarter million.
Everyone here is saying what Brown said is dumb...But it's actually quite clever. With one dogwhistle he managed to slam the Pres and invoke those evil, overpaid, unionized, tax sucking government employees. Kudos...
He forgot to mention janitors...
candacebrown01
But the number of janitors will be greatly reduced if Newt gets to hire grade school children to replace them.
I hope you thank the unions for your 5 day, 40 hour work week or are you one of those workers who just benefit from all the work unions have accomplished?
This dude has led an incredibly shallow existence as far as the real world exists. He really needs a good old fashioned head slapping! Talks just like a rich kid who grew up listening to Faux News!
Brown, pull your head out of your a** and take a real look around.
Rich schoolteachers? That's almost as big an oxymoron as "moderate Republican".
It is not Scott Brown who is too dumb to understand the concept of marginal tax rates only applying to the earnings above $250K. He knows that the people listening to him don't understand. When he makes these comments, he is just reinforcing their misunderstanding to use for his advantage,
When I was in college, I had a friend who was studying accounting. He was afraid that if he earned more money he would be in a higher tax bracket and would therefore take home less money. I never could explain to him the concept that there is no marginal tax rate that is above 100% which is what would be necessary for his nightmare scenario to be true.
I have been competely unsuccessful in explaining to the Warren campaign that she cannot just assume everyone will recognize the flaws in Brown's ideas. He is spending a lot of time miseducating the voters. If she doesn't spend a greater amount of time educating the voters, then she might lose. And even if she wins, she won't be able to be an effective Senator because of all the misinformed voters that will not want her to do the things that need doing.
ssg13565 Looks like there is room for two heads up Browns a**!
John Sixssg13565 That would mean a REALLY giant popping sound if they were pulled out.
ssg13565 Democrats and other good people (politicians or ordinary citizens like us) have a DUTY to educate any and all people we can find who are willing to listen and be educated! Too many people think there is no use trying to educate because "people already have their minds made up." That is absolutely NOT TRUE! How many people say they are undecided days before an election?Also, as usual, Scott Brown's statement uses the $250.000 limit as if it were the TAXABLE income of the two people he's discussing. This helps him win his scare-tactic argument and is the same thing that all the Repugnantcans use when talking about how the "little guys" could be hurt by various sensible taxing proposals. When an income limit is used, it is the TAXABLE income that is considered - I will bet $250,000 that no public servant married to another public servant, overtime or no overtime, has TAXABLE income over that amount! And if they do, then they SHOULD pay higher taxes on the amount over that!
Paying my fair share of taxes is my patriotic duty! And remember "tax" is NOT a four-letter-word!
ssg13565 I sure hope that guy didn't become an accountant
ssg13565 And he was majoring in accounting?? I do agree there are many with no concept of what marginal means, but you would hope someone who can't get that would not even consider going ito anything that requires any math or analytical reasoning.
pffft, That is SO simple to fix. The firemen/police/teachers and other public servants who make more than $250K know how to stash those assets in offshore tax havens!Governor Brown, you seem to have forgotten who governed Massachusetts in the past. Mr. Romney taught us all by example:
1) don't skimp on your tax staff: accountants AND lawyers
2) don't release any tax records to anyone unless your campaign staff (accountants AND lawyers) say so3) siphon off the money to family members (lawyers AND accountants), especially minorsThat is, anyone smart enough to pull down $250K or more per annum ought to be smart enough to hide it.
Scott Brown does have a good point though; letting the Bush tax cuts expire would hurt teachers and firefighters who make over a quarter of a million dollars a year.
Not only that, it would also hurt unicorns and leprechauns who make that much money.
And Santa Claus! Think of the impact on Santa Claus! That dude has to be raking in the dough from sponsorships and endorsement deals. Do we really want to tax a Job Creator™ like Santa Claus?
Doesn't Scott Brown think that any cop/teacher combos making over $250k in adjusted gross income OUGHT to be paying a slightly higher percentage of taxes on the amount that exceeds $250k? I thought the GOP position was that public servants are paid too much, so you would think he'd want to claw back a little of this money...but no. I guess the answer is to pay all cops and teachers less, slash their benefits and crush their unions, in order to punish the high-roller public servants that probably exist only in his imagination.
Either Scott Brown is really dumb, or he figures we're really dumb.
This is ABSURD!!!
And for the one-tenth of one percent of police and teachers who DO make over $250k, they can *afford* to pay the *somewhat* higher tax rate on those last dollars.
"I'm strokin' to the East, strokin' to the West, strokin' to the woman that I love best, I be strokin'"
Clarence Carter
Strokin'
crybaby
Can this guy be any more out of touch? Warren will will be the new Senator.
Any guesses as to what Scot Brown thinks a gallon of milk costs?
D'oh: $374,000!
When Mitt Romney comes out with these sorts of statements ($357,000 a year from giving 8 speeches is "not much money"), demonstrating a lack of awareness of the realities of middle class life, we can chalk it up to the evident fact that he is trapped in his own life experience of wealth from birth.
Scott Brown is well off now, but not super-rich, and he was poor as a child, and has earned regular middle-class salaries during parts of his working life. Other than stupidity there seems no ready explanation for such a deluded argument coming from him.
CareySub While I can't eliminate the possibility of stupidity, I think its far more likely he's just toadying to his corporate overlords who oppose with every fiber the idea that they pay their fair share of taxes. He knows the true middle class won't fund his campaigns nor pay him the money he feels he's worth, so he's eager to throw them under the bus.
It may not have been the "Kennedy Seat" - it certainly was the "Kennedy Expectation." Expect what? Always thinking about non-1% lives. You can't imagine Senator Kennedy making that kind of out-of-touch assertion. Or having that little respect for the hard work police, fire, teachers and other public sector workers do 365, 24/7. And you can't imagine Ted Kennedy not knowing WHY police would work all that overtime, or teachers take second jobs. Get rich? get serious ! they are scrambling to pay their kids' public university bills (among highest in nation), high interest mortgages, New England skyrocketing food-clothes-heating-water BILLS. And in many cases, they are taking care of aging parents and helping their kids who can't afford a house. Unlike Elizabeth Warren, Brown simply doesn't connect his own hard times with a system that favors the wealthy.
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